Make KAI playable

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kenny
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Make KAI playable

Post by kenny » 13 Mar 2017, 17:08

Hi,

My name is kenny and i quess i am known by most of the players here. I have noticed lately that KAI has got very good numbers on activity which is really fun to see. Unfortunately i am not one of these players, and i have my reasons for that. There is more players as well who feels the same as me and chose not to join the server. This is mainly cause we are kinda tryhard ffa players and we want it like it should be. I gave you some feedback before regarding knock backs on red saber slashes which you fixed, and was hoping i could get some more wishes through.

Currently I dont see any real way of playing a FFA on KAI cause of the following features:

1. Commands such as amsit, debugknockmedown etc
2. Some changes to the map affects the fighting in a bad way. The absolutely worst one is the entrance close to the big shield.
3. Teleport commands

I wanted to start a discussion regarding these items that comes to mind at the moment and see what can be done to enable serious ffas at KAI. I am a mapper so if you want help with map modifications I can help out.

// KENNY

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Daggolin
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Re: Make KAI playable

Post by Daggolin » 13 Mar 2017, 18:22

My thoughts on your list:
  1. Commans like amsit and debugknockmedown have been a thing on 1.04 ffa servers from as early as 2002 as far as I remember. It's true that they don't appeal to everyone, but just the fact that you are annoyed by people using them means that some people do infact like and use them. Personally I am not a fan of debugknockmedown, but emotes like amsit were part of what fascinated me about the game and its community, making me stay for all those years. So I personally wouldn't change that.
  2. Just like the above, the new areas don't appeal to everyone, but additional content on the map, like climbing mountains (you as creator of some climbing maps should understand) are a source of great joy for some players and whenever I visited the KAI server at least 3 people were climbing the mountain and some people were enjoying random things on the beach. While this doesn't suit gametypes like instagib, tffa, etc. I think having these extras on a normal ffa server that don't have a time- or fraglimit anyway is a nice addition.
  3. Teleporters: On KAI they're used to reach some of the new areas that wouldn't be reachable otherwise. That kind of makes them neccessary when using additional areas on the server.
I don't think removing emotes or map addons is really helping the server or the game, as some people love those things. Others don't like them. You can never make everyone happy, you have to decide for one thing. But one can try to make things as enjoyable for as many people as possible. So it's important to identify possible annoyance (like people abusing emotes while using force to bug people into themselves) or intense teleport abuse and somehow limiting them (disabling emotes while using force; 30 second cooldowns for teleport triggers; ...).

Those are my thoughs on this. If you have more specific things that annoy you or suggestions on how to make things more enjoyable for a greater amount of players, without alienating too many other players I suggest we collect them here. Maybe we can give the )KAI( people some ideas on how to make their server more enjoyable for you without taking away things that other players love.

kenny
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Joined: 27 May 2016, 22:40

Re: Make KAI playable

Post by kenny » 14 Mar 2017, 10:27

I will write a more comprehensive post when looking get home. Just wanted to add to the list a server setting:

Sv_fps 30

This would increase the pace of the game and make it like it should be :)

Kevin
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Re: Make KAI playable

Post by Kevin » 14 Mar 2017, 10:31

kenny wrote:I will write a more comprehensive post when looking get home. Just wanted to add to the list a server setting:

Sv_fps 30

This would increase the pace of the game and make it like it should be :)
That would also affect saber damage in duels, which has always been a huge turnoff for people who enjoy to duel :)?

kenny
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Re: Make KAI playable

Post by kenny » 14 Mar 2017, 11:11

Ah ok. Well it reduces for regeneration so all ffa becomes slow paced. Is kai really a duel server?

kenny
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Re: Make KAI playable

Post by kenny » 14 Mar 2017, 17:47

1. Yes if just admin would set up rules regaring emotes in fighting as well as punishing it would be great. Cause there is a lot of OP moves that can be used with emotes and they really ruin the gameplay. Sure you can tell me: "Just start abusing the emotes urself and play on the same level", unfortunately that is not how i roll since it has no place in force fighting.

2. This is not really a major issue, just a bit anoying.

3. The problem with the teleport is just that people tend to abuse it after a while and use it to escape combat. An easy fix for this would be to have teleports on the map instead of commands.

4. Would be nice to maybe have a FFA server and a duel server then. I have seen that there is two servers up, maybe we can have one with sv_fps 30 and one with sv_fps 20.

I know i am in not position to have any demands, im just wishing that fixes could be made to invite the force scene more to KAI server. Its great with all the activity and i would really like to see it become a good FFA server. I would acctualy say that the main issue is sv_fps and after that the emotes. SoL has the same issue with sv_fps (but on SoL it is cause they dont want it to be a FFA server), first time i heard it was because of damage in duels so i quess i have to respect the dullers even tho i dont =D

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fau
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Re: Make KAI playable

Post by fau » 14 Mar 2017, 20:03

Kameleon wrote:That would also affect saber damage in duels, which has always been a huge turnoff for people who enjoy to duel :)?
No it doesn't. It reduces latency, probably affects saber blocks a bit but no more than eg different mods do. Also it's almost inconsequential for server load. NF TFFA servers have been running at sv_fps 30 at least since league mod. I would be happy to see all other servers switch too, it's 2017!

Kevin
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Re: Make KAI playable

Post by Kevin » 14 Mar 2017, 22:01

fau wrote:
Kameleon wrote:That would also affect saber damage in duels, which has always been a huge turnoff for people who enjoy to duel :)?
No it doesn't. It reduces latency, probably affects saber blocks a bit but no more than eg different mods do. Also it's almost inconsequential for server load. NF TFFA servers have been running at sv_fps 30 at least since league mod. I would be happy to see all other servers switch too, it's 2017!
It does not alter the damage, so to speak, but it does have an effect on the gameplay which is noticable in duels - the difference between fps and "damage", so you speak, is especially noticable in 1.02 when playing CTF and NF, as their fps is 100 :)

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fau
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Re: Make KAI playable

Post by fau » 14 Mar 2017, 23:19

Kameleon wrote:It does not alter the damage, so to speak, but it does have an effect on the gameplay which is noticable in duels - the difference between fps and "damage", so you speak, is especially noticable in 1.02 when playing CTF and NF, as their fps is 100 :)
In 1.04 there are only a few moves that deal saber damage without time-based cooldown – DFAs in some phases. Not sure about backslashes. I don't know about 1.02, maybe it's different there.

All 1.04 2v2 players play on both tffa and ffa servers and they are fine, even if they feel a bit different. I'm sure there is no damage difference, maybe blocks and hit detection a bit but I didn't make any tests. You can go to SaberMod London server and see the damage yourself with damage plums (it runs on sv_fps 30).

michl
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Re: Make KAI playable

Post by michl » 15 Mar 2017, 04:48

hello kenny!
I like this threat you started. This is a nice way of input to us.
Some of your suggestions allready have been recognized. Therefore debugKnockMeDown was disabled on the servers and we increased the wait time for word teleporters. About the fps thing: KAI is running the servers at sv_fps 30 since months because from my point of view the smoothness of the game profits alot from this and input feels more reactive. There are rumors about it influencing saber damage, yes. But i dont share that opinion.

Sincerely

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Daggolin
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Re: Make KAI playable

Post by Daggolin » 16 Mar 2017, 16:08

Regarding the abuse of emotes, countering abuse with abuse is not the solution, it just makes it more frustrating for everyone else. The right approach would be to write down the specific ways of how emotes are being abused and then patching the emotes to not be that abusable anymore.

kenny
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Re: Make KAI playable

Post by kenny » 21 Mar 2017, 06:54

Was very bad yesterday. A lot of teleport abusing to get out of doom. Otherwise I quess it was quite good ffas :)

Another stupid issue you guys have is that you need to have bots running around, why take up a server spot for something so bad?

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fau
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Re: Make KAI playable

Post by fau » 21 Mar 2017, 11:55

Hint: If you use bot_minplayers, bots will be removed when actual players join.

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