Messing around with ctf_yavin...

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lil_binger
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Messing around with ctf_yavin...

Post by lil_binger »

*Title edited* *Map name to be determined....* *References to ctf_ravin_ruins can be redirected :P *

As work comes to a close for The Temple of Mechanism, I've been thinking a bit on what project I could focus my attention to next. I have a couple other WIPs going atm but I am thinking it would be a very interesting idea to make a ctf_yavin_ruins.

Bespin was always the most played map for ffa and, years ago I made a bespin_ruins map with lots of stuff broken and new areas etc. I don't want to go as far with ctf_yavin_ruins as I did with Bespin Ruins adding new areas and secrets and stuff. I would like to give it an updated feel and possibly improve the gameplay and balance to the original in the process.

I have located a map file from years past I had stashed away I can work with. With the map file, and not wanting to totally remake ctf_yavin, I believe I could work on something that wouldn't take too long to build and release.


I can't do this on my own however mainly because I've never been much of a part of the ctf scene but after throwing the idea around on the mechtemple thread, it sounds like there could be enough interest for me to do a little work with the map. If anyone would like to add some suggestions or ideas please leave a post here or send me a pm. I am still finalizing some work with mechtemple but I could get some work done on ctf_yavin_ruins by this weekend and have something to test before you know it.

Screenshots would be great, etc to leave on the thread to point out stuff and ideas.

I think this would be a fun project to work on so let me hear what you've got to say.



:)
Last edited by lil_binger on 02 Dec 2015, 02:27, edited 2 times in total.
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Boothand
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Re: WIP : CTF Yavin Ruins

Post by Boothand »

Will it be based off a complete remake or an edit of ctf_yavin?

As far as balance in ctf_yavin goes, many people know a lot more than me, but I know blue base has a bugged door (however it can work both as an advantage and disadvantage) that can be closed off for quite many seconds in some circumstances (I don't know which).
Blue base's shield generator is easier to use while maintaining a decent overview of the base.
lil_binger
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Re: WIP : CTF Yavin Ruins

Post by lil_binger »

An edit of ctf_yavin...with some additions for astetics (trees and such and other things located in already inaccessible areas of the map) not to interfere with gameplay. There are other things I could do to make it look a little better and not change the gameplay in any way. I would like to add just a little bit to the gameplay if there is a spot that could use it.

Looking at the door, the flag trigger has a 15 second wait time. The door trigger has a 6 second wait time. The door itself has a 5 second wait time once it opens. When the door is open and someone enters and triggers the trigger before the door starts to close, you'll have to wait 6 seconds before being able to open the door again unless someone triggers the flag trigger.

I could do one thing or another with it:

1 - I could put a little more wait time on the trigger at the door. The game play won't be changed much. It would take a little longer to trigger the door in some cases if 1 or 2 seconds were added to the wait time. The bug still could occur because there is a second trigger in the room but it won't happen as often.

2 - Add a little more wait time on the door trigger and remove the flag trigger (It would have to be done for both sides). The door would be predictable and there would be no door bugs. (doing that though removes a little strategy with opening the door for someone if u are capping etc by stepping on the flag trigger.

3 - Remove the door entirely. (Would have to be done for both sides.) It might make things more competitive. instead of someone timing it well and the door closing behind them, they would not have such an easy escape.

I could remove all the doors but then u could see the opposite side coming and some of the element of surprise is lost. Removing the middle doors on each side wouldn't effect this as much. I would probably give option 1 a try. The other options would be up to you guys. I think most would probably go with option 1. I think a 1 second wait time on the trigger might do the trick so it won't bug so much.


The shield floor unit. Would it be better for both to have the same advantage? Move the red shield up on top of the red side of the base? So they both have this advantage or maybe move both of them into the small buildings on each side so they both have a disadvantage to using them? If someone went into the buildings to use them they could get trapped and would not have a vantage point. Or do you think the blue shield unit should be moved down to the floor in the corner next to the steps kind of like the red base?
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Boothand
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Re: WIP : CTF Yavin Ruins

Post by Boothand »

What if you copied the door system from the red base over to the blue base? I seem to remember only blue has this 'bug', whereas the red door acts more consistently.

I'll let someone else answer from now on, Ferox, original, daimuro or anyone else watching these forums who actually play CTF.

Moving the red shield up might put it in the way of common movement strategies. Putting it inside the building sounds a bit too punishing, unless you're a really good capper. But yeah, I'll let someone else come with opinions.
lil_binger
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Re: WIP : CTF Yavin Ruins

Post by lil_binger »

It looks like both doors are virtually the same. The only difference is the team value. Red side is team/imp1 and blue is team/rep1. Speeds are the same. Door size is the same. And the trigger size is the same. The only thing I can figure, is that players hang out on the flag spot where the trigger is more often on the side where the door is considered "bugged". The only different with the team values, maybe removing the team key and value from the doors might help. I don't think the team values do anything at all.

I would like to hear some info from ctf guys of course. I have worked on the map a little bit. I've added clips for some places in each base to keep from getting to undesirable locations.

ctf_yavin compared to ffa_bespin, there is a whole lot less to break to make a ctf_yavin_ruins. In order to make a ctf_yavin_ruins, what I have been doing is adding some stuff to break outside the zones used for a match in normal game play. So I am working on just keeping it the same but making it look different. There are a few spots where I can break up a brush and make it look better then add in a clip so, the same angle or brush would be exactly the same as the original in terms of shape and size but not look so monotonous with so many repeating textures. So what I have been adjusting could possibly be used server side. The clips are the only thing I wonder about. If the server has clips and players don't, maybe they can still go through the clips? With a ffa_bespin server side, removing clips allows players to go through where the clips were if they have the original and not the server side map so, I am hoping the server side clips will work.

What I need to do is contact a ctf group directly on a different forum possibly to get the most feedback or if anyone here wants to relay some info that would be great. If not, I am just doing it for fun to see what I come up with :)
Kevin
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Re: WIP : CTF Yavin Ruins

Post by Kevin »

There used to be a CTF centrered forum, but it has been down for months :)
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Boothand
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Re: WIP : CTF Yavin Ruins

Post by Boothand »

lil_binger wrote:What I need to do is contact a ctf group directly on a different forum possibly to get the most feedback or if anyone here wants to relay some info that would be great. If not, I am just doing it for fun to see what I come up with :)
They don't have a forum, they use skype groups. Only a few of them have registered here, the rest I don't know. Probably lazy/grumpy after the last forum went down.
lil_binger
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Re: WIP : CTF Yavin Ruins

Post by lil_binger »

I could somehow make a penalty box of sorts for it for officiated games. Officiated games could add a little hockey touch to the mix.

Like a box with a forcefield or something. A player walks inside and the forcefield goes off after a certain amount of time to allow the player back into the game.

It wouldn't be something for regular ctf matches but I could make an "offiated" version for matches might be good as long as players listen to the ref and sit in a penalty box.
lil_binger
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Re: Messing around with ctf_yavin...

Post by lil_binger »

*Title of the thread changed* -- *New info below*

The name of the thread didn't fit, it's actually going to be the opposite sort of. Overgrown with trees and stuf like that but outside the clip zones. I could pretty much edit the entire map and not mangle with surfaces. Pretty much making the game play the same but making it really cool which is what I am doing now until I have more information.

Oh, and I think I remember one thing about something mentioned above. I am pretty sure when when making a serverside map, you can't remove the sky box or players without the clientside version will get a mirror effect. That being said, the way this is turning out, it won't be for a "server side" type of thing.

I want to compile it already but I still have to close in the middle area skyboox. I added big trees so I had to move the skybox around to accommodate. It looks kinda cool already. Adding a few trees in areas u can't get to so I don't have to clip them individualy. I'm working on a little something in the red areas to make it look better. I think it's more going for an updated overgrown feel. Like some recent stuff added in with the old stuff and make u feel like you are n a large forest. Kinda what it should have been....if ya know what I mean. I think that would be the best direction to take the map and kinda gets my interests sparking.
Last edited by lil_binger on 02 Dec 2015, 08:38, edited 2 times in total.
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Boothand
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Re: Messing around with ctf_yavin...

Post by Boothand »

Looking forward to some screenshots!
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Daggolin
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Re: Messing around with ctf_yavin...

Post by Daggolin »

Serverside clips can NOT be walked through by clients. The movement is handled server-side - only the server's map counts.
As far as I know you can extend the skybox, as long as normal clients don't move out of the original skybox (if they do they see the void). The bespin clientsides actually have extended skyboxes and new areas outside of the original skybox.

You can modify values (flags) of doors and triggers on the serverside (as long as you don't create new submodels), you can move spawnpoints (players & items), you can move the shield dispensers, ...

There is actually a lot of other things you can do on the serverside (if you are careful and know how: move doors, add models, ...).
fou_original
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Re: Messing around with ctf_yavin...

Post by fou_original »

Imo, yavin is fine as it is. sure it has some quirks like blue door and the wallbug in red left but those are small things, the blue door can be an advantage as well if the team knows how to use it. blue has a shield generator that is more accessible than the one in red base, but red has pillars which offers for more ways to dodge attacks and a better possibility to go from one side of upper to the other. blue is easier to baseclean, red is easier to camp. both bases have their advantages over the other base and that is why people love the map. if we wanted to play on a map that has identical bases we wouldve played on ctf_bespin or tumble for example. yavin is fine, if u really want to fool around with it i'd suggest you make a completely different ctf map in the style of yavin. maybe make 2 versions, one with both bases based on blue and one map with both bases based on red. but to be honest I doubt people would play them a lot.
fou_original
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Re: Messing around with ctf_yavin...

Post by fou_original »

completely unlrelated, i'd always wanted to see a cool vertical map. with bouncy platforms etc
lil_binger
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Re: Messing around with ctf_yavin...

Post by lil_binger »

I would rather have the bases have different layouts myself.

Right now, I am not trying to do anything with the playable areas or even the door in the blue base. The only thing that has interfered just a tiny bit, is I added some pillars in the red base in the clip zones then I made one look broken and a small piece does go from one clip zone to another in one corner spot but a clip was added above it. It's high enough where I don't think it will be touched in a no force ctf match unless some trip mines are added around the red shield unit in the red base then you might touch the pillar or the clip above it.

--Middle with a couple trees added. Sky box changed to accomodate.

Image

I am basically editing ctf_yavin for fun and I have some ideas that might be pretty neat. Sounds like I will try to make it the same, yet different. And the work I am doing shouldn't take very long so if nobody really uses the map I wouldn't be at much of a loss putting work into it. It's been kinda fun editing a few things here and there and last night I made a big skybox around the map so I could compile and take a look and I do like it so far. The middle and red area already look pretty cool. I haven't done much with the blue side yet.

I may remove the area portals in the doors however, I can use hints to maximize fps and get rid of areaportals which cause a little bug when you stand inside one.

Red base with pillars added and some broken etc, mostly all within clip zones.

Image

Making a completely different map in the style of yavin? Yes I thought of that but how about a completly different ctf map in the style of The Temple of Mechanism? Blue base will have water and a sky and red base will have lava and rocks and maybe be underground or in a cave? We tested the golf course for mechtemple as a ctf map and it was neat but just really doesn't work quite right for ctf.

Both bases would not be the same when I work on a mechtemple ctf map. (I don't really like the idea of having identical bases. If it's really a big deal for bases to have the same gameplay or one team having one advantage over the other, just switch sides during a match or of course play on a different map that is identical.

Plus, the Mechanism Temple backstory, is that the temple is located on yavin 4. So that's a win - win right? Mech Temple ctf + yavin = awesome? lol Anyway, I am being corny now.

I am not putting a whole lot of effort into a new ctf_yavin, I would however put a good amount of effort into a mech temple ctf map. I just haven't worked on a mech ctf map just yet as I am finializing some edits for a conversion of Mechtemple for Jedi Academy. Those edits should be done soon. It's taking a little longer than anticipated because I don't just want a straight conversion for JA. I'm having to edit quite a few things for the JA version because it doesn't look as good in JA yet but it's getting closer. Plus I am adding more sound effects to fill in the sound much more and bringing back a thing or 2 deleted.

A bouncy vertical ctf I have thought about do and always wanted to do. I was consdering this while jumping around mechtemple thinking one base would be in the council room up top and the other base would be the main start area of golf. The top team would have the clear advantage of just dropping off the side of the cliff to the ground below without fall damage which unbaalances things quite a bit. I could add something similar yet different to a mechtemple themed ctf map but take away the advantage or make a canyon to have to jump across with water below and some trees or something.
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Boothand
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Re: Messing around with ctf_yavin...

Post by Boothand »

Looks pretty cool from the screens! :) I'd be extra careful with pillars overlapping the playable area, such as the one lying across by the red lights. It's hard to see, but people sometimes hop on the edge there. On the other hand, it might serve as a good boost if angled correctly.

A mechtemple themed map sounds like it could be cool, if it's a new map based on the theme, instead of CTF built into mechtemple. Anyways, if you post frequent screenshots I'll make sure to pass them around so you can get feedback on how to make it fit for cpt's game CTF.
lil_binger
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Re: Messing around with ctf_yavin...

Post by lil_binger »

I have put clips in for the ledges. I would more than likely keep a clip on that ledge. I am thinking I could remove a couple clips around the raised platforms but not let people go around the corner, as to use the corners to get above the door or the other way. I do think that is one change that could be done. That and above in the blue base logo. And also in the middle section between the 2 bases there are places that people get to which can interrupt gameplay.
fou_original
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Re: Messing around with ctf_yavin...

Post by fou_original »

an idea for a vertical map to work without having the top base just drop down is sort of 2 adjacent towers, just don't have an outside.
2 columns next to each other, with different pathways/small elevators leading up, bouncy stuff etc. maybe with some risk/reward paths. not sure how well it would work gameplay wise but if u could make a basic map without too much detail people could test if it works out.
lil_binger
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Re: Messing around with ctf_yavin...

Post by lil_binger »

fou_original wrote:an idea for a vertical map to work without having the top base just drop down is sort of 2 adjacent towers, just don't have an outside.
2 columns next to each other, with different pathways/small elevators leading up, bouncy stuff etc. maybe with some risk/reward paths. not sure how well it would work gameplay wise but if u could make a basic map without too much detail people could test if it works out.
Sounds like ns_streets design a little bit. That would be a better type of design for a vertical map to work like that so I agree with ya fou_original. Shape it like a Z or something. With some jump targets. Or at least the area with the jumps be shaped like a Z and not exactly the entire map such as ns_streets but keep the flow goin.


I have started a little something. Chatting about it lately has made my mouse itch. (It's not the vertical ctf design) but does have something to do with ctf and The Temple of Mechanism 'cept different....but not....but....different? I'll update with more info hopefully soon, just teasin' ya a little with it now :)
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