a serious issue

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Maxxi(PALPAMEME)
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a serious issue

Post by Maxxi(PALPAMEME) » 08 Mar 2017, 23:01

Hello everyone.

I want to speak to you about an issue that has been bugging me recently.

I am still relatively new to the JK2 community, having only been playing for about 10 months now. In that time, I have learned to play pretty well and have taught many new players. 2 of my students in particular are now respected members of KAI.

But I was not always as good as I am now. like most others, I had to be taught how to play properly. I enjoy teaching players now because I find it incredibly satisfying to see these newbies accepted into the ranks of a clan or just generally become decent players.

I have noticed an increase in new players recently, particularly on the SoL server and occasionally on the main KAI server as well. most of these newbies give up JK2 because of the harsh learning curve and due to the fact no-one is there to teach them.

This is a shame because we are losing so many people who could become valuable members of our community.

Is there any way to help these new players become inducted into JK2? I am open to suggestions.

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fau
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Re: a serious issue

Post by fau » 09 Mar 2017, 00:06

There are few things that usually worked in jk2 community. Big clans with clean hierarchy to give beginners some goals and master-padawan relations (usually inside of a clan). I think SoL clan is doing it right currently. Back in the days there was also some competitive inventive like internal tournaments, clan trainings and clan wars. Also "newbie clans" playing clan wars among themselves and accepting new players into their ranks. This would be hard nowadays due to small number of new players, still worth trying.

Learning curve is not this harsh, you just need to have people on your own level to play against as in any game and this is an issue nowadays (not only for new players). They should play against themselves as much a possible, playing vs much stronger or much weaker opponents is very discouraging.

If you really see there is an influx of new players, more than just a few playing regularly then maybe it's worth organising something for them.

Are you speaking of saber-only or ff btw?

kenny
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Re: a serious issue

Post by kenny » 14 Mar 2017, 17:51

If they play at SoL or KAI it should not be a problem. They take good care of beginners and there is no skilled players in each clan, which allows new player to always have beginners to play versus. Problem i think though with SoL and KAI that its more of a chatting community than a fighting one.

Maxxi(PALPAMEME)
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Re: a serious issue

Post by Maxxi(PALPAMEME) » 19 Mar 2017, 08:59

I can't say I agree with you there Kenny. I quite often see the new players rqing on both servers because everyone just seems to roll over them, not to mention some new players are just so salty they simply taunt us regardless of how much we try to make our intentions clear. Our clans tend to treat them fairly but sometimes the same cannot be said for the other people on the server.

Thankfully I have come up with a plan to help these new players.

I'm going to talk to Michl about setting up a beginner's server for the new guys. this allows beginners to play with other players of the same experience and skill level. it also allows me (or any other player willing to teach) to log on and teach any new players on the server. I also plan to use minimal plugins and no modded maps; making a server for beginners is futile when the new players in question can't play on it without mods.

I hope that this will help players integrate into the JK2 environment. Here's hoping Michl agrees and we can get this server going!

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Re: a serious issue

Post by fau » 19 Mar 2017, 09:52

Sounds good (if you have enough beginners). Maybe make it invite-only with a password?

YY-James
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Re: a serious issue

Post by YY-James » 21 Mar 2017, 07:01

Not everyone has a nice ping of 30-60, with fast reactions, because we're at different distances from the server. If you'd like, I could set one up in North America if a Europe server isn't that great for some players ping wise.

Maxxi(PALPAMEME)
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Re: a serious issue

Post by Maxxi(PALPAMEME) » 27 Mar 2017, 07:50

thanks YY. that's a good idea. I'll talk to Michl about setting up a beginners server in Europe as well. Hopefully once these servers are set up, it will be a lot easier for new players.
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YY-James
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Re: a serious issue

Post by YY-James » 27 Mar 2017, 10:55

Maxxi(KAI PALPAMEME) wrote:
08 Mar 2017, 23:01
Hello everyone.

I want to speak to you about an issue that has been bugging me recently.

I am still relatively new to the JK2 community, having only been playing for about 10 months now. In that time, I have learned to play pretty well and have taught many new players. 2 of my students in particular are now respected members of KAI.

But I was not always as good as I am now. like most others, I had to be taught how to play properly. I enjoy teaching players now because I find it incredibly satisfying to see these newbies accepted into the ranks of a clan or just generally become decent players.

I have noticed an increase in new players recently, particularly on the SoL server and occasionally on the main KAI server as well. most of these newbies give up JK2 because of the harsh learning curve and due to the fact no-one is there to teach them.

This is a shame because we are losing so many people who could become valuable members of our community.

Is there any way to help these new players become inducted into JK2? I am open to suggestions.

Palp
You're a strong one, you didn't give up, you stayed despite the negative things (not saying that you have noticed/cared for). :lol:
You, along with whoever taught you can teach, that's a good start.

I even notice new players come in servers, not realizing that the "players" shown on the server name (Not serverinfo), are possibly bots, or another case, the player wants a part of the action, not knowing the other players have a greater skill level, general gameplay or otherwise.

It's a delicate process. That one time the player comes into the server may be his/her only time attempting to look, and then move onto another game since it was uninteresting.

The problem is that new players come in, they may or may not have played single player, and depending on each case, they could end up like this:

1. See a server with 2 (32) (Bots) -> Enters (Does NOT look at serverinfo tab) -> sees TK-421 (Bot) -> attacks -> wins fight -> bot says scripted line -> player talks back -> bot doesn't respond -> player leaves

2. See a server with 2 (32) (Real players) -> Enters (Does not look at serverinfo tab) -> player finds other players -> attacks -> loses fight rapidly -> player leaves immediately

My point is, this game didn't come with a thorough instruction booklet, like you said, harsh learning curve. (Goddamn it Ravensoft.) :x

Here's a idea, how about a video if not a series of videos, with/without a combination of readmes to go with them, going over the very simple, easy basics. Show with a whole keyboard overlay on-screen or in-game, that'll make it even easier for these guys. Controls, menu options, player options, easy console commands.

Q: "Hey, what's the bind for moving forward? Is it forward? moveforward? walkforward?"
A: "Open your console, type /bind W +forward"
Q: "How do I open the console?"
A: "You press ` (Tilde, appears as ' in-game) and Shift at the same time."
(Keys displayed in answer were used, no effect.)
Q: "It won't open, are you sure those are the keys?"
A: "Press the key below escape, and above tab, while holding shift at the same time."
(Enough console messages have passed to move the helpful message above, and not visible.)
Q: (Console is open) "What was the message again?"
:roll: (You right?) Come on! He's new!
A: "/bind W +forward"
(More messages cause the help message to roll up.)
Q: "I can't see the message, it disappears!"
A: "In your console, press page up to see previous messages."
(Message is seen.)
"YAY! I CAN MOVE FORWARD!"

No? Too hard for the new guy to learn? See, this is why I suggest DETAILED videos and readmes about this. Let alone all the other things that follow suit, maybe need a IM program, like Steam or Skype, because they can't copy a link in-game, or heck could be very new to the computer age, and doesn't know what a link is.

Reach out and help.

My $0.02

Maxxi(PALPAMEME)
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Re: a serious issue

Post by Maxxi(PALPAMEME) » 27 Mar 2017, 17:18

thanks mate, that is a good idea. I'll consider it. Meanwhile, I have some news for you all.

Michl has kindly agreed to let me use his second server as a training server. We are still working on it, but it should be running soon. I will let you know when we get it going properly. In the mean time, Thank you everyone for the ideas and support. it means a lot :P
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michl
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Re: a serious issue

Post by michl » 29 Mar 2017, 21:47

kenny wrote:
14 Mar 2017, 17:51
Problem i think though with SoL and KAI that its more of a chatting community than a fighting one.
haha the arrogance

Maxxi(PALPAMEME)
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Re: a serious issue

Post by Maxxi(PALPAMEME) » 30 Jul 2017, 21:49

Bet you guys forgot about this post! :P

I have began to create a team of teachers dedicated to helping new players. I have only started today, so I need to work on the specifics. give me some time, and I'll update you all soon.

oh and btw, I may be posting under a new JK2.info account, unless I figure out a way to change my username :3
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Kameleon
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Re: a serious issue

Post by Kameleon » 31 Jul 2017, 10:53

Maxxi(KAI PALPAMEME) wrote:
30 Jul 2017, 21:49
Bet you guys forgot about this post! :P

I have began to create a team of teachers dedicated to helping new players. I have only started today, so I need to work on the specifics. give me some time, and I'll update you all soon.

oh and btw, I may be posting under a new JK2.info account, unless I figure out a way to change my username :3
What do you want to change it to? I can do it for you I think :D

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ouned
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Re: a serious issue

Post by ouned » 04 Aug 2017, 13:49

Are new players even a thing in jk2?

Kameleon
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Re: a serious issue

Post by Kameleon » 04 Aug 2017, 16:25

ouned wrote:
04 Aug 2017, 13:49
Are new players even a thing in jk2?
A few whenever there is a Steam sale, but most of them usually doesn't stay for too long :lol:

Ferox
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Re: a serious issue

Post by Ferox » 07 Aug 2017, 06:48

whats happening is that some people come from FFA to CTF and the other way around, at least for 1.02. but new players should come to 1.04 directly after buying it, i dont know how new people are welcomed there

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Re: a serious issue

Post by ~troop~ » 17 Aug 2017, 18:27

Ferox wrote:
07 Aug 2017, 06:48
but new players should come to 1.04 directly after buying it
Well, I doubt most new players will go ahead and find a way to go back to the old versions, when they buy it on Steam. So, obviously they would come to 1.04 and the first server they see on the list. (Which interestingly happens to be SoL or JiP's servers. Especially when they toggle the "Show Empty Servers" option off.) They also assume that some bots are real players, which might be like a wrong advertisement of a kind for how kinds of players they will encounter. There are also many "pro" players that might lame them which will take them off a game very easily. I think there needs to be a server for people who want to learn the game and play (Which was what this topic originally was about).
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