DeFrag 1.02

General topics about Star Wars or Jedi Knight II.
Odysseus
Posts: 8
Joined: 28 Nov 2016, 06:19

DeFrag 1.02

Post by Odysseus »

I'm not sure if defrag is available right now in jk2 1.02
I want to buy a server
Last time I talked about it with reality I'm not sure we managed to gain agreement. Also I'm not sure it is easy to handle defrag database
Also, I have a few questions:
- is there a way to make a general external database of records which would be updated automatically? (something like Dota MMR ranking page, perhaps), because if we make two servers, for example, then it would be really hard to actually know your ranking in the world
- is anyone else in this community ready to pay a server rent? (20 bucks is not much I know, but two people means 10, plus I am not super active)
- is this genre still of interest to you?
- is there ANY other new-server related idea (outside of current subject)?

Looking for your help so I could quit jk2 9 more times. k thx.
User avatar
Daggolin
Administrator
Posts: 794
Joined: 23 Feb 2015, 13:05

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Daggolin »

Hello,

there is already two servers around jk2 that offer similar features. The "/ / / DeFRaG" server on 1.02, as well as the "[DARK]JumpServer" on 1.04. As the general movement is the same on both versions there is no real reason not to play on 1.02/1.04, even if you dislike that specific version. ;)

Both servers keep track of your best times (if you register ingame) and offer a list of the top10 best times for the current map. Though as far as I know both servers store the times in local files instead of a remote database, making it hard to actually display them on a website.

Additionally the 1.04 server offers you to race a map either with aircontrol (known from CPM/Defrag) or without it (vanilla jk2 gameplay), maintaining a top 10 list for both modes on each map.

Both servers (the 1.02 and the 1.04 one) were made by different people, independant of each other, resulting in different settings on both of them, making it hard to determine the "world's best" on some maps. I am afraid, adding another (different) racing server would make it even harder to compare times than it already is.

Both servers are actively played on, but it's surely not a playerbase big enough to split them among even more servers. If you feel like writing a mod that support a central external database, save authentication, etc. that multiple servers can use at the same time, feel free to do so. I am sure a few of us would be interested in hosting servers for that, but keep in mind that a mod connecting to an external database needs more access than an average qvm mod has, so you would probably end up compiling libraries for windows (32bit & 64bit) and linux (32bit, 64bit) [excluding mac here :P]...

If you just want to play Defrag there is two servers for you to choose from. ;)
User avatar
Boothand
Administrator
Posts: 986
Joined: 24 Feb 2015, 08:21
Contact:

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Boothand »

There is a defrag server now, called ///DeFRaG. Not sure where the maps are though, couldn't auto-DL them. That's all I know.

You asked about any other unrelated server-idea - yes, I'm hosting either a Force Rebalanced (modded FF server that attempts to make laming impossible in FF), or a FL server with some modifications to make wallhack unnecessary and perhaps some modifications to how kick knockdowns work, depending on what the players prefer. As soon as Nitrado decides to actually let my server.. exist? It didn't work, like by default.

Also, Daggolin beat me to this post.
User avatar
fau
Staff
Posts: 433
Joined: 16 Aug 2015, 01:01
Location: Warsaw / Poland
Contact:

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by fau »

Ground friction is different between versions and some moves with saber, not a deal breaker though.
Odysseus
Posts: 8
Joined: 28 Nov 2016, 06:19

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Odysseus »

Daggolin has a point. Really annoying all those version differences that split the community.
I think yes, more defrag servers are unnecessary.
Also I'm a little bit egoistic and close-minded about the whole "force", "1.03", "1.04" things... I only really want 1.02 NF CTF / 1.02 NF defrag
User avatar
Daggolin
Administrator
Posts: 794
Joined: 23 Feb 2015, 13:05

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Daggolin »

The ground frictions isn't different in 1.02/1.04 as far as I know. The only real difference is backwards-running on 1.04 only has 0.75 times the speed as on 1.02. But that does NOT affect air backwards, so it doesn't matter 99 percent of the time. Therefor it doesn't matter whether one plays on 1.02 or 1.04. :D

And with jk2mv you can try out both versions anyway to find whatever you prefer. ;)
Dash
Posts: 4
Joined: 02 Dec 2016, 06:11

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Dash »

Hi Ody

Miso agreed to host a server for us and NT lent the files, so we could bring the old defrag back. If you want to have your times registered you have to use a non-JK2MV/Giz VVV mod executable, since the NT mod clientside is incompatible with those.

Also NT is busy with real life at the moment so newer maps aren't hosted on his http server yet, though for the old ones the downloading in game should still work.

http://www24.zippyshare.com/v/UXwtWOAl/file.html
Here's a link to a zip that has all of the newest maps, and we have a defrag group on skype where all the latest maps are posted as they are created.

http://www13.zippyshare.com/v/TxyWzEGm/file.html
And here's a cracked "normal" 1.02 multiplayer executable that you can use to play if you don't have one already. It's an old one I found back when there where problems with the masterserver (hence the name) but it works fine for me. Only problem is I sometimes get a "MAX_CVARS reached" error sometimes for some reason but I don't know if it's just my JK2 that's the problem.

Oh and my account on skype is doakes (at) openmailbox.org if you want to be added into the group.
Kevin
Administrator
Posts: 393
Joined: 07 Jun 2015, 08:36

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Kevin »

I'd not recommend an old cracked exe like that one. Use JK2MV instead :) It has all the latest security fixes :)
User avatar
Boothand
Administrator
Posts: 986
Joined: 24 Feb 2015, 08:21
Contact:

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Boothand »

Why not use JK2MV and get those maps on Daggo's JK2MV compatible defrag server?
Dash
Posts: 4
Joined: 02 Dec 2016, 06:11

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Dash »

Kameleon wrote:I'd not recommend an old cracked exe like that one. Use JK2MV instead :) It has all the latest security fixes :)
Yes, JK2MV is better in all aspects, but NT mod doesn't work on it, and he isn't planning on making it compatible, playing with 1.02 assets and a vanilla exe file is the only way to record times on the 1.02 server.
Boothand wrote:Why not use JK2MV and get those maps on Daggo's JK2MV compatible defrag server?
To be honest I wasn't even that keen on bringing defrag back since the JKA equivalent is much better done (multiple maps in one map file you can go through teleporters etc.). But Miso agreed to pay for it and here we are lol. I'd actually say a server split is good cause now people can play longer force-jump 3 & cpma suited levels over on Daggo's server and more 1.02 no force ctf oriented shorter maps on the 1.02 server.
Kevin
Administrator
Posts: 393
Joined: 07 Jun 2015, 08:36

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Kevin »

Dash wrote:
Kameleon wrote:I'd not recommend an old cracked exe like that one. Use JK2MV instead :) It has all the latest security fixes :)
Yes, JK2MV is better in all aspects, but NT mod doesn't work on it, and he isn't planning on making it compatible, playing with 1.02 assets and a vanilla exe file is the only way to record times on the 1.02 server.
Boothand wrote:Why not use JK2MV and get those maps on Daggo's JK2MV compatible defrag server?
To be honest I wasn't even that keen on bringing defrag back since the JKA equivalent is much better done (multiple maps in one map file you can go through teleporters etc.). But Miso agreed to pay for it and here we are lol. I'd actually say a server split is good cause now people can play longer force-jump 3 & cpma suited levels over on Daggo's server and more 1.02 no force ctf oriented shorter maps on the 1.02 server.
But the features of the NT clientside is limited to players with the JK2MV clientside, and JK2MV is used by many/most players these days.

I can't make decisions on behalf of Daggolin, but seeingen as he helped the CTF community with the "Simple CTF" mod, maybe he would be willing to make a "Simple Defrag" mod too, so that it would be compatible with JK2MV, and by that doesn't expose players to all of the evil exploits found in old exe's.

I am really against playing with the old exe just to play Defrag.

If I knew how to make those mechanics I would gladly have made the mod myself, but I haven't worked with those aspects before.
User avatar
Daggolin
Administrator
Posts: 794
Joined: 23 Feb 2015, 13:05

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Daggolin »

Well, the 1.04 server has gotten a few upgrades over time. Most maps are played with force level 3. But not all of them. And most of the common maps among the 1.02 players are going to be played with level 1 force jump. The server currently offers two different modes, so you can switch between pJK2 (promode Jedi knight 2), which is what everyone refers to as cpm and vJK2 (vanilla Jedi knight 2) on your own, simply by saying "!mode <new mode>". Each of those modes keeps track of own best times, so you have various "!top10 <mode>" lists. So depending on the map you either got level 1 or level 3 available and you can decide yourself, whether you want to play with aircontrol or not.

In an upcoming update (that needs a bit more internal testing to not break anything) the server is additionally going to support "vNF" (vanilla no force), which is played COMPLETLY without force (jump level 0 [ZERO]) and "pNF" (promode no force), which is played similar to vNF, but with aircontrol enabled. Each mode will still maintain an own list of top 10 best times.

vNF and pNF gameplay is going to be quite hard to impossible on some maps. But really fun on others. So everyone can play however they want and even if a mode doesn't look like it can work out on a map, a dedicated player might still manage to set a record. :)

If you're interested I can post here once those changes hit the 1.04 server.

PS: The names of vNF and pNF might still change to vFR (vanilla force restricted) and pFR (promode force restricted), as most people assume jump level 1 when they hear no force, but what the mode really means is completely restricted force (level 0). We will see once it hits the server. Additional modes might follow over time.
Dash
Posts: 4
Joined: 02 Dec 2016, 06:11

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Dash »

Hm yeah I remember Silver or someone else telling me that some updates were made. Last I remember your mod was pretty barebones with only cpma physics and a single top time :lol:

With those changes implemented your mod is pretty much going to be superior to NTs, so I was thinking about maybe dropping NT on our server in favor of yours. This way people could play on our server with JK2MV too. Also 2 servers (ours hosted on 1.02, so people can play with the VVV mod executable for instance) would also solve the problem of people wanting to play different types of maps in different styles at the same time. There aren't many people on our server who enjoy long maps that's for sure. :)

In JKA's Japro mod they have solved this problem by making a single "superpack" file of different maps pasted together with teleporters to each and times tracked separately, but I don't think impletenting a function like that here is worth the effort. I mean at that point you could pretty much move to JKA and play there.

Something to think about for sure, that is if you would be willing to lend us (me, miso & silver) your mod to use.
User avatar
Valar
Posts: 67
Joined: 16 Aug 2015, 18:17
Location: Loading, please wait..

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Valar »

I find it pretty disturbing to see the 1.02 server described as "our server". THE 1.04 Jumpserver has been around since 2012 and Daggo has put in mad effort and time to make a quality racemod for THE PEOPLE.

The current 1.02 raceserver only exists for dumb political reasons and certain person's desire for server ownership. (↼_↼)

Speaking of ownership..
Dash
Posts: 4
Joined: 02 Dec 2016, 06:11

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Dash »

Valar wrote:snip
Can't tell if this post is sarcastic or not, but I'll go ahead anyway and clear some misconceptions here.

I used the term "our server" to refer to the server that most of the people on 1.02 currently play on. Obviously I'm not at all trying to generalize that it belongs to or represents every JK2er, I'm distinguishing it from the DARK Jumping Server since the playerbase is different for the most part.

The 1.02 NTXIII DeFrag mod was brought back, because at that time (just 2 months ago? don't even remember lol), the DARK jumping server didn't have all of the features several 1.02 players desired (higher timer resolution, vanilla 1.02 jk2 strafing with force jump level 1, accounts&top10 lists). Right now Daggo's mod has all of those features, and it is actually better, since it supports JK2MV.

And the 2 reasons why the server exists are because NT trusted me with the files and Miso agreed to host the server on his own expense. Oh, and I guess a few people wanted to have defrag back too :) I was wholly content with JKA's race server.
User avatar
Valar
Posts: 67
Joined: 16 Aug 2015, 18:17
Location: Loading, please wait..

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Valar »

Just to clarify: I meant what I said.

Of the ones listed, ingame top10 is the only feature that used to be missing.
Dash wrote: And the 2 reasons why the server exists are because NT trusted me with the files and Miso agreed to host the server on his own expense.
Those aren't reasons at all! That's like saying I own a 16 Inch black dildo because Dash was selling and I could afford it - NO! The reason is:
I really wanted one so I could go and slap miso with it.

This is the point where I'm supposed to say: I don't mean to antagonize anyone and post something constructive.
But really, I am just getting upset as I watch people choose pettiness over having nice things.
User avatar
Boothand
Administrator
Posts: 986
Joined: 24 Feb 2015, 08:21
Contact:

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Boothand »

Uhm. Well, pros and cons of having one server vs two:

Pros:
-Only got one best times list if there is one defrag server, so the best times are the actual best times, no need to compare between them. Also won't be that inconvenient if it was to be displayed externally like on a website or something.
-Miso doesn't have to pay money.

Cons:
-If 4 people want to do longjumps/cpm and 5 people want to play vanilla jk2 defrag, 4 people will be unhappy or will have to wait (depending on how the map voting system works).
-If the jumpserver is on 1.04, 1.02 players without JK2MV (why though?) would be unable to join.

I imagine for the most part, people will be able to mapvote to a desirable map, though.
User avatar
Miso
Posts: 170
Joined: 24 Feb 2015, 02:41
Location: Massachusetts / United States

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Miso »

Well I am super late to this conversation lol, but i'll put in my 2 cents:

1. I'm paying barely anything for this server so hosting is not an issue to me

2. I would like to see everyone move to Daggolin's server eventually. We've been testing things a lot and we're trying to favor everyone's needs. I think it will happen at some point. We just need to test a bit more.

3. I agree with everything Boothand mentioned

4. Both mods work great. The problem is, in order to get full benefits of the 1.02 server, you'll have to use regular 1.02 jk2mp instead of JK2MV, or else you won't get all the features that are included, and obviously using JK2MV would be much better (this is stated in previous posts so I won't elaborate anymore on this). Daggolin's updates on his mod is great because you can pick & choose what you want to do, with !mode pjk2 / vjk2. What I do fear is having 1.02 players not want to play on this simply because it's using 1.04 animations, meaning "IT WON'T BE THE SAME BECAUSE IT DOES NOT HAVE THIS DISTINCT 1.02 FEEL TO IT (aka my character doesn't tilt the faster I go)".

5.
valar wrote:That's like saying I own a 16 Inch black dildo because Dash was selling and I could afford it
I lel'd many minutes. Why a dildo? And why is it black? SO many questions.

6. One thing that Daggolin's mod has that destroys NT's mod is being able to /callvote for any map, rather than callvote nextmap. Very annoying on 1.02 defrag I may add. :P

7. I would like to eventually stop hosting this 1.02 defrag server at some point. Not because it's an inconveinence or anything like that; but mainly because of what I wrote at #2. Not to mention all of the players there really wanted new maps, which they did create new maps. But I am pretty sure that they are not added to NT's repository so they won't download at all. The only way you can join the server is if you know WHO to ask to download, which is pretty bad. It's basically a server for a small group of people which I don't really approve of. It was fine before because all of the maps were downloadable through NT's client, but now it's a bit unfortunate. =/

Sorry if this is messy and out of context but I just wrote this off the top of my head ;D
Jj.miso
Kevin
Administrator
Posts: 393
Joined: 07 Jun 2015, 08:36

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Kevin »

You do realize that Daggolin only need to change a cvar, and then the entire jump server could be set to 1.02 mode, Miso? :P So if animations is the only thing holding it back, which seem like a weird explanation, then I doubt the users of the 1.04 jump server would complain about the animations being slightly different (mainly that your torso can do some turns), and probably wouldn't mind playing it in 1.02 mode as it doesn't affect strafing at all :)

He just need to finish the new features and then he could either just flick the gameplay switch or make another server for 1.02, though the first option would probably be sufficient :P
User avatar
Miso
Posts: 170
Joined: 24 Feb 2015, 02:41
Location: Massachusetts / United States

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Miso »

Here's another issue I forgot to mention: the strafebotters. There's a bunch of them on the 1.02 defrag server. What's the point in even playing there when the top times are done with a strafebot?
Jj.miso
Kevin
Administrator
Posts: 393
Joined: 07 Jun 2015, 08:36

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Kevin »

Miso wrote:Here's another issue I forgot to mention: the strafebotters. There's a bunch of them on the 1.02 defrag server. What's the point in even playing there when the top times are done with a strafebot?
Never heard of a strafebot :lol: How do you know that btw? :P And how would it work xD?
suvix
Posts: 1
Joined: 10 Dec 2016, 19:55

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by suvix »

Miso wrote:Here's another issue I forgot to mention: the strafebotters. There's a bunch of them on the 1.02 defrag server. What's the point in even playing there when the top times are done with a strafebot?
its simple nobody cares about them
User avatar
Miso
Posts: 170
Joined: 24 Feb 2015, 02:41
Location: Massachusetts / United States

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Miso »

Kameleon wrote:
Miso wrote:Here's another issue I forgot to mention: the strafebotters. There's a bunch of them on the 1.02 defrag server. What's the point in even playing there when the top times are done with a strafebot?
Never heard of a strafebot :lol: How do you know that btw? :P And how would it work xD?
It's a modded exe with 2 pk3s used as well...it was originally used for q3 but was converted by somebody..added cvars like +autostrafe which positions your model in the perfect angle to gain speed. It's been spread around to a few people
Jj.miso
silver
Posts: 5
Joined: 22 Aug 2016, 11:56

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by silver »

Boothand wrote:Uhm. Well, pros and cons of having one server vs two:

Pros:
-Only got one best times list if there is one defrag server, so the best times are the actual best times, no need to compare between them. Also won't be that inconvenient if it was to be displayed externally like on a website or something.
-Miso doesn't have to pay money.

Cons:
-If 4 people want to do longjumps/cpm and 5 people want to play vanilla jk2 defrag, 4 people will be unhappy or will have to wait (depending on how the map voting system works).
-If the jumpserver is on 1.04, 1.02 players without JK2MV (why though?) would be unable to join.

I imagine for the most part, people will be able to mapvote to a desirable map, though.

thats the one thing thats bothering and daggo once said he could just host 2 servers which is a good solution to this
but theres one more thing on 1.02 defrag i tried to actively add new maps i converted them myself or even made one myself ultra did aswell but we do not really beta test them much most of the time they didnt need to be betatested anyway and IF something was wrong i could just delete times BEFORE people got WRs so all im saying is IF you host a second server JUST for vq3/vjk2 please give SOMEONE(dash maybe?) active from the 1.02 euros access to the ftp so we can kinda manage it without needing to wait for you everytime we wanna add a new map

another topic is the strafebotting IF someone wants to strafebot....IT IS OK AS LONG AS THEY DONT LOGIN AND SCREW WITH THE TOP10(if they do ban them) that was the main problem on 1.02 defrag they couldnt see their times if they didnt login thats the only reason why it was even allowed to strafebot while logged in and i actively tried to tell every botter to login into THE SAME account as all the other botters so we only wasted 1 top10 slot thats pretty much the same way it is handled on q3 defrag no one cares about botting there as long as they dont login
User avatar
Daggolin
Administrator
Posts: 794
Joined: 23 Feb 2015, 13:05

Re: DeFrag 1.02

Post by Daggolin »

The 1.04 server has a "test mode" for maps to not save any times for beta maps. So I don't see any reason why anyone needs direct access to timer data. The server can handle those internally, without the risk of anyone accidently messing things up via FTP.

And regarding FTP for maps, miso already has that FTP data for a long time and I already said to dash that I would be fine giving him access to upload maps and settings to the server as well.

Regarding the hosting of multiple servers, I wouldn't see a reason to explicitly limit the second server to a specific mode or group of maps. Both servers could run the same set of maps and modes, they would just need an adaption to prevent writing to the same timer on both servers at the same time (for instance server1 could refuse switching to a map that is currently run on server2 and print the IP:Port of the second server instead). That way the servers could be used for any maps or any mode by anyone. And if required one could even consider adding a third or fourth instance.

And the server prints your time, no matter if you were logged in or not. It only stores your time if you logged in though.
Post Reply
Created by Matti from StylesFactory.pl and Warlords of Draenor (modified by jk2.info)
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
 

 

cron