Project "Make jk2 great again"

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Ferox
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Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Ferox » 26 Nov 2016, 10:39

Hey,

so there is no doubt that jk2 is one of the greatest games ever and it would be a pity to just let it die like that. I was a CTF player, but I am talking about all kind of gametypes: CTF, FFA force lame or duel.

First thing, I want you to imagine, imagine there is a jk2 for all gametypes with:

- MMR (ratings like Dota2 or LoL, ranked)
- alot of more players
- no bugs, crashes, abuses, cheating
- match making system to quickly find people to play CTF 5on5, 6on6, duel, force lame or whatever you want

Well, would be cool, would have been cool years ago but now jk2 is dead. Well, not exactly dead but it is going more inactive lately. Thing is, in 2016 we have alot of chances that wouldnt be possible years ago. There are many pages and projects such as Kickstarter, Game Design Studios looking for good game ideas, Crowd Funding pages.

There are four things going on right now:

1) eSports is becoming like huge in Europe and is already in Asia
2) It is all about money, and there is alot of money involved, for tournaments, communities, Steam and companies who want to sell their stuff. Just look at DotA2, the price money they get is higher than the reward pro footballers get for winning games
3) eSports community is constantly seeking new games to attract the crowd
4) There is no shooter as "big" eSports game currently except CSGO and Overwatch, though 1.02 isnt exactly a shooter, is MOBA dominated

So the thing is, jk2 1.02 as fast paced "close combat FPS" would be the perfect game to fill that niche. Im not talking about jk2 1.02 as it is right now, its too full of bugs, crashes, its incomplete. I dont believe Ravensoft or someone is going to make a JK4, and if they do it will be close to JK3 kinda. What I want is take the current combat system of jk2 1.02 entirely (including of course, the force lame fighting) and make an entirely new game with all the features mentioned above. I do not know if it should be called Ninja Wars and it is Katana instead of light saber and you pull someone with a ninja rope instead of force pull, that doesnt matter anyway - but you get the idea regardless of what "universe" the current combat system will be put into.

So, i thought about giving this a try without too much effort to present our idea and our game to kickstarter, crowd funding pages or gaming studios that want to make an eSport title but got no fucking idea what they should do because the world is fed up with Mobas already. Again, without too much effort, we would just need some text, presenting the game, and perhaps some movies and screenshots introducing the game and the general idea. If anyone is willing to help me, or if you want to share your ideas, please post in here or contact me.

So, to sum it up: the project is about finding a gaming studio willing to believe in this. the money of crowd funding would go into supporting them. i need your help to show them the passion and fire for this game, and make them see how great this game was (is).

PS: I know this isnt a jk2 1.02 board but also for jk 1.03 and 1.04, so why not execute this idea with 1.04? Well, simply put Ive tried both and everyone Ive talked to believes jk2 1.02 is more fast paced, more entertaining and thats why competitive is still alive for so long. However, its still an opinion and if you believe 1.04 is better suited thats cool, but this thread is for making it work based on jk2 1.02 combat system for no force/force lame.
Last edited by Ferox on 26 Nov 2016, 13:30, edited 2 times in total.

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fau
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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by fau » 26 Nov 2016, 12:10

<deleted dream-shattering post>

PS What you're playing is not FPS. It's not first person, it's not shooter. Only FPS scene in jk2 was CTF community but it moved to JKA ages ago.

Ferox
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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Ferox » 26 Nov 2016, 12:38

just to clarify because there was a discussion on Discord, my post was a bit too egoistic. obviously, the game should also be free for modding if possible and not only be around gameplay itself, though the gameplay of jk2 1.02 is what im personally into.

regarding "fps", I said close-range combat fps i dont want to get hung up on that term it doesnt matter what you call it, though 1.02 is neither close combat only nor shooter, mainly its fast paced close combat sword battle but there are many long range abilities like mine throw, boosting, seeing, force drain, lightning and such. i guess not enough to call it shooter, but that makes it even more unique.

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Boothand
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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Boothand » 26 Nov 2016, 14:37

I'm studying in what would best be described as a game-dev school. I'm in the (final year of a) programming class, the others are animation and visual communication, and it's quite focused around game development. Where I study is also one of the best locations for game development in Norway, so we have a lot of contact with people in the industry.

What I want to say is - no studios will pay anyone for a game idea, and no studios have this campaign where they let people pitch them ideas because they're dry and need to make something. What you have is an overflow of game ideas rather, and they get tested out, cancelled in early prototyping, and a select few ideas get developed to such a degree that it's feasible to continue.

We have lots of videos showing high level JK2 gameplay. I'd start there if you're serious about pitching this to someone. Throw together a short and digestible presentation video, share it on reddit, see what gamers think of JK2 just by looking at the presentation, and find out why and why not they are attracted to the game. With the right presentation, maybe some youtuber could do you/us a favour.

You'll need to build up some serious interest around this before you think about anything like Kickstarter (seriously, that requires a ton of effort, preparation and dedication). It's currently a game with a super small player base (which is again split by FFA/CTF, 1.02, 1.04), so you'd need convincing arguments for why this should be a thing.

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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Player » 26 Nov 2016, 18:01

so to clarify ferox doesnt know what he wants but to play ctf he doesnt care about anyone else but that he can play himself
boothand wants well it has nothing to do with 102 nf ctf thats for sure and yeah also he only wants what he wants himslef but he isnt sure what that is yet something with saber duel system from mount and blade and jka style would kill ctf dbs completly notice thier all yellow poke newbs that wont setup big and actractive kills why everyone just leaves jk2 because thier not interrested in playig with scrubs like these pricks
lets make your face great again kek unpossible

Ferox
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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Ferox » 27 Nov 2016, 07:18

Fau, no need to edit your post I do not have too high hopes either, I just thought you can give this a shoot because it is low risk high reward. Regarding the game studios, I never wanted them to pay anyone for the idea, rather I wanted to present this to them in a manner so they understand how good this game can be if you take the core (combat system), maybe some even consider a close combat game in general even though it is totally different from JK2/JKA (though that would be a lose then), if this works at all i doubt a company would copy the combat system exactly as it is right now, it isnt a perfect game either but a close combat game based on fast pace where you can kill anyone at anytime even though to execute that it is very difficult, that would be satisfying alone.

As for reddit, thats an good idea ill pick up, but I wanted to start here with this post: what u guys thought and what actually has to change to make it interesting as game again for new people or the mass in general? before turning to strangers I wanted to collect ideas here first. One thing I understood from the other discussion was that it would be important to host private servers and the possibility to make skins and mods (which is possible fo Dota2 to some extent right now).

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Boothand
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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Boothand » 27 Nov 2016, 12:44

Of course, you're right to bring it up here beforehand. I just think we should rather focus on making this game better/more attractive, than to have an outsider make something new. It would take years and would probably turn out pretty differently. Also keep in mind CTF, FF and FL all have vastly different gameplay, and making someone from the outside pick up on the essence may be challenging, since it would sound a bit like three different game ideas.
Moddability is also a big thing to consider, since I can't think of any modern engine that supports modding to such a huge extent.

But I do support the idea of making a new attractive similar-ish game with high paced gameplay and an intelligent combat system. But I can't quite see it happening through our efforts alone. I still think our best bet for now is to make a pitch/presentation video that shows the core of CTF and force gameplay, a couple of minutes at most.

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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Kameleon » 27 Nov 2016, 13:01

Boothand wrote:Moddability is also a big thing to consider, since I can't think of any modern engine that supports modding to such a huge extent
Bethesda's "Creation Engine" (Skyrim, Fallout, etc.) :D But yes, it is rare Indeed :D

Ferox
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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Ferox » 27 Nov 2016, 14:01

thing for jk2 is, the skill curve is without limits because even on CTF the top was getting even better, it is easy to watch and understand (blue team / red team, u can follow what is going on even as beginner, CTF or force lame can be explained in a few words if it needs explaining at all), the amount of skill involved is huge in comparison to the amount of luck involved (oki if its 6-6 and SD decides the deciding 7th score on CTF u may think this game is based on luck, but still about 90% isnt but that has to be reworked anyway to some extent), its easy to broadcast and spectate, easy to get into but hard to master (well right now it is not easy to get into because there are no new players but if this game gets alot of beginners, beginners play among themselves and then it is easy for them to get into especially with some tutorials), basically everything a good game needs, perhaps CTF should be reduced to 5 caps and not 7 since it will take longer in advanced games and obviously, alot more maps than yavin (maps that are actually good and fun to play). but, u cant just take current renders and throw them at ppl because they dont understand jk2 and see the value of the frags, u need simple frags showing the mechanics of jk2 that are not entertaining to jk2 ppl but introducing to new people.

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Boothand
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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Boothand » 27 Nov 2016, 15:46

I agree that you need different kinds of videos to introduce new people. We have the resources too in the community.

On a sidenote, I think CTF could benefit from having non-random SD. Have tried it a couple of times with Silver, he might have something to say about that too. In baseJK there's 20% chance to fail a red swing block. With the mod it's guaranteed to block, but you still need good aim, and you can adjust how much you need to face the attack to block, with a server variable. It felt like baseJK, just more predictable. Tell me if you wanna try it for CTF.

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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Ferox » 30 Nov 2016, 13:09

any other ideas where you could post this other than reddit? not kickstarter yet though, because that would need much more preparing

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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Boothand » 30 Nov 2016, 18:37

We talked on Skype, but to sum up and add some new points:
  • Appealing to game studios, then (in the best and unlikely scenario) waiting years to see if someone's JK2 inspired game is good enough, is not better than making JK2 better.
  • The source is open, JK2MV happened. Some things can be done by the community.
  • Modding and customization is an attraction to this game and people play it casually too, not only the eSports potential.
  • DDOS protection exists, but is more expensive. If servers getting crashed is a real issue, maybe try get some people together to pay for one or two, or set up donations perhaps. See Caelum's posts: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=650 and https://jka.io/
  • Rend2 may be finished, and if so, we can make high quality new assets to make JK2 look a lot more modern. Examples: https://jkhub.org/topic/7468-rend2-a-mo ... /?p=107453
  • Getting more consistent at making tournaments and events (we can make pretty decent looking streams!) is good for getting ourselves more out there.
One of the top eSport titles is Super smash Melee, from 2001. Not saying JK2 can be that, but they both have fast paced close-combat gameplay.

Instead of posting on more sub-reddits for now, let's agree on what to do, if anything. In my opinion, the way to go is building an interest. One way to start off that could be to make a short video to pitch the game. Short clips of CTF, NF duels, force fights, modding/content creation, JK2MV. Another thing would be to stream a tournament or two.

That's my suggestions!

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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Ferox » 01 Dec 2016, 07:51

i just read through Steam forums and was surprised that the common opinion was new people are not welcome and no one is going to help you. unless you behave like player I believe there are alot of people willing to show stuff to new people and a bunch of tutorials. I decided to also open a steam topic: http://steamcommunity.com/app/6030/disc ... 1480548454 and pointed Jk2MV out. no need to decide for 1.02 or 1.04. my second post is what new reddit posts should look like I guess, direct links to the community (this forum, Discord) and mentioning that u dont need to choose between any version.

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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Odysseus » 01 Dec 2016, 08:08

I'm probably an egoist, but fuck 1.04

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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Daggolin » 01 Dec 2016, 14:46

Odysseus wrote:I'm probably an egoist, but fuck 1.04
The community is small enough as it is, no need to split it even further.
Play whatever version you want to play and let others play whatever they want to play.
If someone comes up with great maps, mods or other content around one version the other version can also benefit from it. :D

Anyway, welcome to the forums! ;)

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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Boothand » 01 Dec 2016, 14:49

For the record (some people seem to think this), I am not involved with JK2MV development in any way. Also, JK2MV prevents some cheats/exploits, but not scripting.

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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Ferox » 02 Dec 2016, 07:23

Even though I prefer 1.02 obviously theres lot of stuff u can play regardless of the version such as Defrag or manhunt. Other than that, I have corrected the authors for jk2mv.

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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Valar » 02 Dec 2016, 15:57

um well.

Better to make THIS game more enjoyable and worth playing.
There are actual things that can be done by the average person on this forum;

*I problably have a million thoughts on the topic but can't easily convert them into something readable.

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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Valar » 02 Dec 2016, 16:19

*Oh and.. please can you not;
Ferox wrote:any other ideas where you could post this other than reddit? not kickstarter yet though, because that would need much more preparing
You need about 10 000 times more quality and effort in your presentation before you can successfully use those avenues to tangibly increase the playerbase of Jk2 (this can be done).

It should go without saying that going to kickstarter to fund a game, that's better than jk2, made by a person or persons on this forum, is completely ludicrous and WUT I DON'T EVEN

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Boothand
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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Boothand » 02 Dec 2016, 22:21

Valar wrote:um well.

Better to make THIS game more enjoyable and worth playing.
There are actual things that can be done by the average person on this forum;

*I problably have a million thoughts on the topic but can't easily convert them into something readable.
I would really like to read them if you come up with a conversion algorithm :P

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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by YY-James » 03 Dec 2016, 09:50

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=669

Would this help anyone here?

Ferox
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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Ferox » 03 Dec 2016, 19:18

YY-James wrote:viewtopic.php?f=23&t=669

Would this help anyone here?
of course it does. how does the thing work? i can browse in-game through maps and download them?

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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Kameleon » 03 Dec 2016, 21:16

Ferox wrote:
YY-James wrote:viewtopic.php?f=23&t=669

Would this help anyone here?
of course it does. how does the thing work? i can browse in-game through maps and download them?
Use JK2MV to download the maps from ingame :)

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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by Ferox » 16 Dec 2016, 08:56

I do not have a proper PC right now but I will next week. Once I do, everybody who is interested in promoting JK2 let's join a Skype or Discord group chat to make a small plan of what to do.

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Re: Project "Make jk2 great again"

Post by elykder » 16 Dec 2016, 18:13

Is there any link to download jk2?

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